The Indian/Chinese IQ puzzle
Posted by Lurker on August 20, 2011, 04:41 AM | #
Care to elaborate anon?
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America is in terminal decline. 14 million people are out of work. Another six million are in temporary jobs unrelated to their primary skills and experience. How about directing your energies toward studying the IQs of unemployed and underemployed people in America? Maybe you’ll find they possess low IQs in the range 75-85 and that’s why they were let go by their companies. Do not automatically assume people have lost jobs because of the economy. Maybe people who have lost jobs should not have been hired in the first place. In a good economy managers at companies have a tendency to overstaff and build their own little empires. The people who are now unemployed may have gotten in during the time the companies were overstaffing. These people may be low-IQ people which may interest you enough to include them in your future work.
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshh3BI4708zS3J35O86
People often point to the plethora of Indian workers in advanced positions in America’s IT industry and the UK’s medical fields. The truth is, many Indian immigrants to these countries are pre-selected as from the higher IQ range, and not indicative of either the mean or the average Indian IQ.
India is also an astonishingly stratified nation, in terms of wealth, religion,ethnicity and caste. There is less stratification in immigrants from India to the UK and the US than in the country’s populace as a whole. The higher caste, urbanised elite provide the lion’s share of immigrants.
This gives a distorted image of Indians as being of high IQ levels. Compare this to immigration from Mexico to America, where every middle class, lighter skinned urbanised and educated immigrant is probably outnumbered dozens of times over by normal working class Mexicans.
China’s IQ average is much higher and more consistent than INdia’s, which is why any betting man would bellow with laughter at the mainstream media discussion on how India may soon catch up or even overtake China.
This will simply never happen. Largely due to the natural iq difference- 106 for China 82 for India. Sure, environmental factors have a role in IQ, but no matter what effort you make, you will never make up a 24 point difference.
Other factors include huge political and sectarian tensions. Communist political and military organisations hold huge sway in parts of the east of the country. Problems with the HIndu majority and the tens of millions of Muslims will not evaporate any time soon. India borders age old rival Pakistan,and the tensions have gone as far as nuclear stand-offs.
And finally, they share a border with China!!! There is simply no room for 2 giant, advanced societies and world political behemoths to border one another. Not that INdia could ever approach China’s evolution anyway, but if it did it would inevitably clash with China and come off second best
@The_Observer lol I had already debunked the big lie of the Chinese being good mathematicians by destroying the validity of the IMO now you come with a weak argument about it’s only been recent years.
Chinese are good at being math students not mathematicians (they’re two very separate things).
China has been ranking high in the International Math Olympiad since the mid 1980s and has not won EVEN 1 Fields Medal, Abel Prize, or Rolf Nevanlinna Prize. China has already disproven the validity of the IMO contest and some other contests.
The mid 1980s were not just in recent years they were nearly 30 years ago. So why hasn’t anyone from China won the Abel Prize, Rolf Nevanlinna Prize, or Fields Medal?
Tao is not from China he is from Australia, and just as I said his most significant contribution comes with the help of whites (in this case Ben Green). The Green-Tao theorem however is not that significant since Szemerédi’s theorem had already been proven in the 1970s.
Tao is just overrated by the Chinese. I mean there’s probably not even one mathematician in the entire world who would ever place Tao above mathematicians like Galios, John von Neumann, or Grothendieck.
Chinese have always lacked in the contribution department and no one can deny this.
Now let’s look at what India has contributed JUST in recent years since the year 2000:
- Won the Abel Prize (which is closer to the Nobel Prize in mathematics than the Fields Medal)
- Won the Rolf Nevanlinna Prize (equivalent to the Nobel Prize in computing)
- Developed (purely in India) the first published primality-proving algorithm to be simultaneously general, polynomial, deterministic, and unconditional called the AKS Primality test (unlike the unproven Miller-Rabin test)
If robotic type contests were useful it should be IMPOSSIBLE for Indians to be contributing more than the Chinese since the year 2000, shouldn’t it?
I guess China disproves the validity of contests.
China has already disproven the validity of multiple contests lol….I mean look how much better China performs in robotic book-style programming contests than India so why was India the one to develop the very first proven primality test and not China? It shouldn’t be possible.
Chinese and East Asians should just stick to getting help from whites to make any contributions or only making contributions that require very little to no originality.
No one has been able to given any valid explanation for China’s lack of contributions.
The only talent coming out of China is how to win a worthless contest.
Now it’s time for me use my Blessed Divine Aryan mind to completely debunk the myth of the validity of the International Math Olympiad:
- IMO country rankings do not correlate to Fields Medals or Fields Medals equivalent (Abel Prize or Nevanlinna Prize), otherwise it should be impossible for France to have 11 Fields Medals and 3 Abel Prizes
- IMO country rankings change dramatically from year to year, further indicating they have much more to do with selection process and pre-college education system of a country rather than mathematical talent
- IMO rules say you must be under the age of 20 with no tertiary education level, further indicating they have much more to do with selection process and pre-college education system of a country rather than mathematical talent
- Only 6 individuals per country participate in the IMO, further indicating they have much more to do with selection process and pre-college education system of a country rather than mathematical talent
- The Chinese who win IMO gold medals in non-Chinese countries still don’t contribute much or anything at all, further indicating that the reason the Chinese don’t contribute is because they are genetically specified to be unable to contribute not because of the education system
- Indians who win IMO medals in non-Indian countries contribute lots, further indicating that India’s IMO rankings are suppressed by a bad selection process and pre-college education system
I already know that the main reason India performs poorly in the IMO is simply because of a bad selection process and pre-college education system, just read things like this http://in.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100212220044AAhScLH
If the IMO rankings were a useful indicator for India specifically it shouldn’t be possible for India to produce more mathematical talent than China.
IMO individual rankings are far more useful than IMO country rankings.
Just look at the contributions made by the Chinese vs. Indians since the year 2000 and it’s no comparison, India wins by a HUGE margin.
The AKS Primality test developed by Indians working in India is far more significant than the Green-Tao theorem proven by Ben Green and Tao working outside of China. The AKS Primality test has infinitely more applications than the Green-Tao theorem which has virtually no applications.
Whites and East Asians should just step back and let India rise up and surpass the entire world.
I’ve already thoroughly destroyed what the Chinese have been boasting about - their IMO rankings. The whole point of the IMO is to find mathematical talent which is shown by contributions so China has thoroughly failed.
You will never hear any Chinese boasting about contributions, but only worthless contests. We can see just as I said that the Chinese just don’t have any talent.
Since China performs #1 in most robotic-type contests yet has no significant contributions to show for it we can only conclude that China raises it’s rankings with artificial measures. China must be preparing students for the IMO in high school to artificially raise it’s IMO country ranking.
Most IMO-style questions just require using simple techniques found in books. IMO contest questions don’t even cover anything as advanced as calculus. With around 1-year or so of practicing IMO-style questions it wouldn’t be hard to get an IMO Silver or Gold medal.
For some reason on all the non-book style contests China doesn’t perform well in. I mean there’s no Chinese chess player that’s ever ranked world number one http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_FIDE_chess_world_number_ones .
I mean if someone like Tao never existed mathematics would remain nearly the same without all of Tao’s contributions. I’m very surprised that Tao even got a Fields Medal. Tao is more celebrated for being a prodigy than for his contributions.
The Green-Tao theorem has virtually no impact on mathematics, like nothing. On the other hand the AKS Primality test changed computer science and mathematics. Bhargava’s new Gauss composition laws also changed mathematics.
We can see that since China has been winning lots of contests since the mid 1980s yet has no significant contributions to show for it that China is basically done and has maxed out all it’s potential. China isn’t really doing anything other than winning contests.
India on the other hand performs much worse than China in contests, has a much lower literate population than China, is much less developed than China yet since the year 2000 has been contributing more.
Chinese should just stick to worshiping white people, boasting about worthless contests and let Indians take everything over.
China is much more homogenous in terms of haplogroup distribution, so an iq test done on a population in any part of china would be valid.
However, India is a much more complex and diverse society.
Different communities have different proportion of male contribution for certain haplogroups. I believe males carrying certain mutations for R y dna, O y dna and J y dna might be smarter.
PLEASE CHECK THESE LINKS
If you don’t know what HAPLOGROUPS are, google them. The world is way more diverse than you think. People have migrating everywhere for the last 10,000 years. Greater civilizations usually become a melting pot. You can see that if you look at haplogroup distributions for Italy, Greece, certain parts of Middle East, India.
R Y DNA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R_(Y-DNA)
O Y DNA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_O_(Y-DNA)
J Y DNA
I’m more looking forward to what would will happen to Vietnam, Thailand, and Nigeria once they become developed.
I don’t really know what’s going on with China and contributions. China has been ranking high in the IMO since 1986 (25 years ago) yet China has no Fields Medals, Abel Prizes, or anything equivalent to show for it. India hasn’t been ranking high in most contests and since the year 2000 already has an Abel Prize, Nevanlinna Prize, and many other contributions that have not yet won major prizes. In 2014 and/or 2018 India will probably win a Fields Medal.
Since India is less developed, India has much more potential than China. The Chinese just can’t contribute much because contributions are directly linked to originality and things far outside of books.
Indians should just focus on developing and improving the living conditions in India to eliminate all the environmental and health factors lowering the IQ in India so that the average IQ in India should be around 102-110.
Indians have lots of super-geniuses like Balamurali Ambati who learned calculus at age 4 (Terence Tao learned calculus at age 7) and set the world record for being the youngest doctor, Vinodhini Vasudevan who set the world record for the youngest to score a perfect on the SAT, Manjul Bhargava who has some form of photographic memory and is the 2nd youngest full professor at Princeton, and many other super-geniuses.
Once India becomes more developed, India will obviously surpass the entire world and retain it’s position as the most advanced civilization just as in the past.
India had the very most advanced civilization for thousands of years, much more advanced than China, only relatively recently has India been surpassed:
- Indus Valley sewage and piping system was only surpassed in the 19th Century
- India had the earliest form of high carbon steel, Wootz steel, which even by today’s standards is considered one of the highest quality forms of steel
- Indian linguistics were the most advanced until the mid-20th century, Panini’s morphological analysis (from the 4th Century BC) is the most advanced prior to the mid-20th century (relatively recently)
- Indian philosophy is the only one that rivals or surpasses Greek philosophy, the logic and concepts in the Indian Buddhist pali canons by itself is enough to rival everything in Greek philosophy
- Indians were the first to develop the concept of sine, versine, earliest sine table, treat zero as a number rather than a placeholder, develop the Chakravala method, develop first general method for finding solutions to Pell’s equation, solutions to Diophantine equations of the second order, develop infinite series for trigonometric functions, mathematical analysis, and more…Indian mathematics were unsurpassed until the time of Newton and Euler
China surpassed India in inventions, but that’s only because China had the culture to build labor-saving devices for at least 2000 years. The majority of Chinese inventions don’t require much intellect at all and many were very inefficient. The mathematical inventions developed by Indians require more intellect than all of China’s inventions. China didn’t even approach anything like a Newcomen steam engine or a piston steam engine even though no knowledge of physics or electromagnetism is required for steam technology. We would’ve expected any civilization that has the culture to build machines for at least 2000 years to come up with at least steam technology. Basically any civilization that has the culture to build machines for 2000 years would’ve been able to come up with as much as China did or more.
As soon as the Arabs and Europeans adopted the culture to build machines they easily surpassed China in inventions. Once you factor in the culture variable of being the only civilization in the entire world with the culture to build machines for 2000 years China’s inventions aren’t that impressive. On the other hand Wootz steel, Indian linguistics, and some mathematical methods developed by Indians are still impressive today.
Since India had Wootz steel, clocks, water wheels, book binding, an advanced sewage system, and had already surpassed China in philosophy, linguistics, and mathematics I’m sure that if India had the culture to build to machines for 2000 years they would’ve easily surpassed China in inventions as well. I mean just imagine the inventions Indians would’ve had if India had the culture to build machines and brahmins and recluses were assigned the task of building machines by Kings. Indians likely achieved even more it’s just that Indians were not good historians so many things disappeared.
All Indians have to do is focus on infrastructure and development then once that happens India will retain it’s position as the most advanced civilization in the world, just as in the past.
Intelligence is many different things. It cannot be defined, measured and reduced to a single number. The IQ tests measure specific skill sets. For example, your proficiency in solving verbal, numerical, analytical and visual-spatial problems. If a nation’s population is literate with at least up to a good high school education you can expect the average IQ to be closer to 100 in that country. The idea that national IQ and
national wealth correlate well is not unsound. But it is not always so for many different reasons. For example, China wasn’t even in the game about 30 years ago as a competitor in the global economy. Back then, if you were comparing the national wealth of China to its supposed IQ of 100(assuming it was the same then as it is now), it would not have made any sense at all. Thirty years ago you had a China with a supposed average IQ of 100 and little national wealth.
Greece and Ireland are in serious economic trouble. There does not seem to be any meaningful correlation between their national average IQ and their national wealth.
The word intelligence in Intelligence Quotient is the problem. For one thing, IQ tests do not measure intelligence but skill sets. IQ tests should be renamed GLPT for General Literacy and Proficiency Test. Or called by another suitable name.
“without an appreciable I.Q one can’t score the right SAT or GRE score to be eligible in the first place to study in western universities and eventually become their citizens.”
GRE maths is childish. The more difficult part is vocabulary, done by rote. Secondly, I would expect english scores to be rated more laxly than for the native or rather white students.
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“Thirty years ago you had a China with a supposed average IQ of 100 and little national wealth.”
Well, they tripped a bit with their great leap.
“Greece and Ireland are in serious economic trouble. There does not seem to be any meaningful correlation between their national average IQ and their national wealth.”
There isn’t a meaningful correlation between your mom being pregnant once upon a time and your height.
“The word intelligence in Intelligence Quotient is the problem. “
Stones and sticks will break my bones, but words will haunt me forever.
————
“Since India is less developed, India has much more potential than China.”
Or being on roughly similar timelines, today’s difference in their conditions is the effect of that difference in potentials rather than its cause.
You cannot predict a nation’s economic performance
several decades ahead. But it is not fantasy to
project a GDP of, say, 10 trillion dollars for India
in 30 years or so. It will probably be powered by a
workforce drawn from, let us say, 3 or 4 hundred
million people.
A GDP of 10 trillion dollars for a populaion of
3 or 4 hundred million is not too bad.
So you can have a nation within a nation. A nation
of 3 or 4 hundred million people who are its modern
economic backbone within the larger nation of
1.2 billion or more.
And the average IQ may well remain somewhere in the
80s for a country with a large GDP of 10 trillion
dollars.
Of course this is not what India wants. According to
the govt 90 percent of the children are in school now
and the rate of population growth has slowed down
considerably although it remains above the replacement
level.
Economically speaking China was a nonentity just
30 years ago. Today it has an economy of 5.5 trillion
dollars roughly the same as that of Japan but China’s
population is about 11 times that of Japan. America’s
GDP is 14.6 trillion.
China has a pervasive counterfeit culture. Probably
tens of millions are engaged in manufacturing
cheap knock-offs and selling them to Chinese
consumers as well as exporting them overseas in
violation of international intllectual property
rights.
China has a literate population and a very large
economically active workforce of more than 750 million.
Chinese manufacuring and economic growth are the
direct result of several decades of transfer of
technologies and manufacturing know-how by American
and other Western corporations to China to set up
manufacturing operations there because of lower costs.
As for India-China competition or rivalry, it is
an exercise for some idle minds with not much to do.
Each country is following its own path.
It may not be generally known that China adopted
market economy in 1978 and India in 1991. China
has a 13-year headstart. In real terms it is more
than just a 13-year advantage because in China from
the beginning the government has been identifying
specific industries, products and services to go
after and working closely with universities,
entrepreneurs and corporations to provide full
infrastructure and other support as necessary without
bureaucratic delays.
Hahahahahaha funny this two poor 3rd world country are fighting each other , very typical crab mentality. Why not you all focus on why your countries has the smallest penis in this world. Or just behave cause your master ( superior white ) might take your poor job .
This whole business of imaginary India-China rivalry was
first started by Wall Street types: bankers, economists,
financial columnists, investment analysts and advisers
from abroad.
They looked at the growth in GDPs in recent years. The
GDP growth rates for the two countries are comparable.
They also projected an aging population and more and more
seniors and retirees in China and a slowing down of population
growth and an eventual decrease in population there. This they
interpreted as economically unfavorable to China in the
coming decades. Thus based on current GDP growth rates
and projected demographic changes in China they created a
fictitious economic competition between the two countries
out of whole cloth.
Since then more and more people have taken to writing
and commenting about a national rivalry between the two
countries that simply has not and does not exist.
who said china had won 7 prizes.for shake of ur binformation-republic of china have won 2 peace prize.hongkong chiana 1 physics prize.and republic of china(taiwan)3 science prize.so the so called chinnese republi of today have won 2 peace prizes who are most hatered by their own goverment.and india have produced the class of sn bose,jc bose,mn saha,ecg sudarshan-who all didnot win(some of them not even nominated)but first 2 of them are 2all time great.also worlds most sophisticates vitro fertilization test tube baby maker subhas mukhopadhya had to commit suicide for abuse within india.2010 nobel prize went to one of the co british scientist for this research.if mukhopadhya would have been alive he should have got it.plus the city of calcutta is directly associated with 5 nobel prize winner and also 3-4 genuine guys whom i have already mentioned(source-wikipedia page nobel prize controversy). so the city calcutta alone is enough to beat whole china.
@ Posted by sampan on September 03, 2011, 09:54 AM | #
sampan,
Relax, man, keep cool! Don’t bust a blood vessel.
I pointed out in my previous post that this bogus, fabricated
competition between India and China was first started some
years ago by Wall Street types. Ignore it and do not allow
yourself to be drawn into it.
Nobel prizes were established in 1895 and the first prizes were
awarded in 1901. Read a little history and familiarize yourself
with where your country was in 1895 and what exactly it takes
to win a Nobel prize. If you are capable of undersanding that
you will not be writing stuff and nonsense as you did in
your post above.
Further, Nobel prizes these days and achievements of the
ancient past are irrelevant to economic progress a country is
determined to make.
Always ask yourself: what have you done lately?
The brain requires a huge amount of energy. If you live in a region where the risk of children suffering from diseases and viruses is higher, it should be expected that as the body diverts its energies to fighting illnesses, it has less to allocate to brain development.
It’s not race that matters, but health.
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