The Indian/Chinese IQ puzzle

Day 12
China - 77 medals ; 36 gold, 22 silver, 19 bronze - Rank 1
India - 4 medals; 1 silver, 3 bronze - Rank 46

@Indian Arts

If India is the 3rd largest economy then it should be at least in top 30. It doesn’t have a single gold!
Also, according to wikipedia India is not the 3rd largest.
Liu Xiang is an olympic gold medalist and world champion in 110m hurdles. It’s unfortunate that he had to quit two consequitive Olympics in a row because of injury. So China does have winners in track and field.

The Indians are the hard working people, not the Chinese or the other East Asians. You have already identified the 9 Nobel Prize winners of India, 3 of who are non-Indian origin. That means only 6 winners for India. Is that the contribution of India accusing the Chinese with hard working? If Nobel Prize is not a good measure of creativity (no kind of measure is!) then what about the top 6 most cited physicists here?

http://in-cites.com/nobel/2007-phy-top100.html

Why are all of them East Asians? Why isn’t there even 1 Indian? Winning Nobel Prize makes anyone famous for sure but Nobel doesn’t have to be a perfect measure. The Indians can only be proud of the scientists whom no one ever heard of. However there are many more Chinese or East Asians scientists who were never heard but at least cited much more if you are looking for a measure. Upper castes still refers to the Putnam test in America though I explained to him. Putnam test can only be taken by the math undergraduates and the best East Asian students enter the engineering departments and not many talented students are left behind in the math departments. But what makes laugh is the kind of comparison. He obviously can’t compare the international math or physics Olympiads and he also can’t compare the math Olympiad within America (USAMO). He only compares the exam results of a stupid test which only American and Canadian math undergraduates can take whereas the best East Asian students are already out of the game.))))

@Indian Strategy
That is a list of mostly 3rd tier physicists and there are a few Indians in that list.
Stop making excuses, strategy!

@ Chinese Olympics

You are not getting my point, List of countries by GDP (PPP), According to economists PPP basis is more defined when comparing generalized differences in total economic output between countries and that is the norm of comparison, The order is

1. European Union
2. USA
3. China
4. India

We can exclude European Union as it is not a country, so argumently India is in the 3rd position if China is 2nd got it man ? Even Wikipedia say it, google for List of countries by GDP (PPP) 

Japan is in the 4th place in GDP, why that is not reflected in the medal count ? Even for other developed countries, So there is no correlation here.There is a correlation, All depends on the Sports budget allocation of the respective countries. Search for it.

Track and filed is not possible other than Blacks, look all the final participants are blacks. Chinese hard work fails here. They are the best factory works in the world that is why I said mongoloids are the most hard working people. India vs china is Yoga vs Kung fu, The former is concerned with the brain and the latter the physical.

@ Nagasaki Day sorry what is the proof that the list is made of 3rd tier scientists? The measure counts for only citations and it is open internationally. No one sat down and created that list alone but it has been made according to the citations. Is it the criteria that the scientists no one but only (!) the Indians heard of are only the first tier ones??? The Indian comments on this forum are really ridiculous. They can’t even do a very simple research to find the GDP per capita of India but still go on talking about the great (!) Indian scientists. I think only the Indians decide about what tier the scientists are. The Nobel Prize is not a measure, ok, the citation index isn’t either. Okay then what is your measure?

brain vs. physical, sure, it’s more like east asian brain >> south asian brain and east asian physical >> south asian physical. Indians just can’t compete on any level, brain or physical. Whether it’s creativity, working ethics, iq, nobel prizes, just to name a few. Games like table tennis, badminton all require brain and skill, not just repetitive work, yet, south asians are sorely lacking in those fields as well. On anything that has measurable results, south asians lose, so they have to resort on non-measureable bs like “greatest”, “einstein of ... “, “Higg is famous and doesn’t have a nobel, the same should go with Bose or whoever indian claims… (a colossal breakdown in logic by the way, all third tier scientist don’t have nobel prizes and should be famous, lol)”,  bigger talker than brain indeed.

@strategy

The proof is that someone will not need citation if his/her theory is well known. Nobody cites Einstein’s original papers when they use relativity equations.
Another proof is the couple of indian names present in that list. Not very popular names at all. These are definitely not 1st tier, or even 2nd tier names.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_(PPP)
GDP based on PPP is more useful. India is 3rd. So there is nothing wrong with the research here.

And stop bragging about Nobels.
China doesn’t do much better than India in Nobels. China’s population is larger, and even larger educated populatoin, but has roughly the same number of nobels. Also, China has only one peace nobel to show from within the country - the rest are not by Chinese citizens.

This is about India and China, stop bringing other countries.

@low iq EA

Table Tennis and Badminton are some of the small number of games in Olympics that are worth taking seriously. Others like synchronous swimming or diving or gymnastics or discuss throw do not interest many Indians.

Saina won the bronze in Badminton and Kashyap made it to quarters in london. That is despite India having very very few badminton players and only one badminton academy of merit. If there is anything this proves, then it is the fact that the whole thing about reflexes is a lie.

@Indian Arts

The only area where I agree with you is that Indians should see themselves as one group.
That’s all I have to say.

—-

These Chinese posters here should get a life instead of hating Indians.

@ low IQ EA

Table Tennis , Badminton etc are 3rd tier games, I would say kids games, well and fit for only short people like Chinese. Cricket needs more planning, tactics, batting response time, bowling accuracy, It is like winning a war, that is what we choose. More over what is the most intellectual game ? Obviously Chess who found it ? Do you know ? Do a search.Tell me any innovation in the world which can match with the Indian innovation of Decimal system and mathematics which is the foundation of every Science and technology. How did your grandfathers got Buddhism ? from where ? Buddhism overrun over your Taoism right or not because Buddhism is more philosophical ( logical brain power). That is what I said you guys can only do factory jobs , repetitive works, you kung fu masters….

@Great

Your Quote—- “The only area where I agree with you is that Indians should see themselves as one group.
That’s all I have to say.”

If you agree with the above, then you have to agree to what all I said, My argument was only against racist Bengali’s, They are the only Indians spoke against other Indians in this forum, I mean your friend,Not you. I was responding back to prove that there are smart Indians from every part of India unlike dumb Chinese from every part of China. IQ never makes a man smart,  Who ever is racial is a dumb guy, that is what happened to Hitler even though his IQ was 141, Abraham Lincon’s IQ was only 128.    Hitler did suicide, so was dumb ?

@Indian Arts

I agree with you to the point that racism is stupid.

However, Sambit is by no means the only Indian person who made racist remarks here. I think Sambit was provoked by some of the earlier comments by some South Indians who were trying to prove their superiority. Also, there have been some specific comments against Bengalis even before any bengali posted here.
While I don’t support Sambit’s superiority complex, he wasn’t the one who started it.

I think Indians have potential in games like badminton. Saina is proof.

I think its fair to say Bengalis and Tamils have been the most successful of all Indians academically (science, economic, lliterature, etc) over the last 2 centuries, but in recent times others have done pretty well (like the Punjabis).

Rishi Bankim Chandra Chattopadhyay, Sarat Chandra Chattopadhyay, Jagdish Bose, Rabindrantah Tagore, Vivekananda, Satyajit Ray and many others to name are some examples of the success of Bengalis.

Bangladesh has also produced Fazlur Khan, whose method of structural design is now used in most tall building structures in America. I will be surprised if Salman Khan (American of Bangladeshi origin) of Khan Academy doesn’t win the Nobel Prize for education sometime in the future if the success of Khan Academy continues.

However, nobel prizes alone are not a guide to how smart a group is. These awards sometimes can be politically and economically motivated. Just because Jews have won so many prizes does not mean it is representative of success. Due to Nazi crimes against them, Jews have received tremendous goodwill in Europe and America over the last 60-65 years and no doubt in my mind quite a lot of these prizes have gone to them as a result.

Coming back to the Indian IQ score, I think they may have tested people at random for it to only come at 85. Had they tested upper castes, or upper castes and middle castes only, then this figure would surely have been similar to that of Europe, if not higher.  Also, I would say IQ differences regionally in India is very small (probably none), the differences will be along class lines.

I would also say this. You should remember the poor in places like India and Africa are very often illiterate and many of them have probably never used pen on paper, so to be suddenly tested for IQ can be psychologically very difficult. I would like to think if these same people were able to read and write, they would achieve a higher score. I bet young Africans who have stayed in the UK for 10 years or more and educated there, do much better than their average of 75.

I have come across many Africans in the UK that are well spoken and do quite well in their work life. Equally, I have seen many whites that are lowly educated and socially inept (the CHAVS, for example). I think given the right surroundings, and the encouragment of their community, blacks have the ability to do well.

As for Rushton, sorry, that guy is clearly a racist. I have seen some of his videos and he clearly dislikes blacks, Indians and Arabs. For some reason he is very hostile towards them.

@Great

I don’t know who started the rift among Indians, anyway now we are in a win to win situation - Yes we are all Indians and Indian Intelligence is not stick to any one particular region, Let us now go for Chinese ...........  together.

@A Malik

Your Quote -I think its fair to say Bengalis and Tamils have been the most successful of all Indians academically (science, economic, lliterature, etc) over the last 2 centuries, but in recent times others have done pretty well (like the Punjabis).

Why you are sticking only to last 2 centuries ? India has a long long heritage than last 2 centuries, Indian Contributions are pre-dated than these tiny 200 years and most of our Indigenous wealth of knowledge came from those ancient times from every part of India, That made INDIA as one of the 4 ancient civilizations, Chinese always accepts this ( Chinese state TV). Only there are a few stupid Chinese fellows in this forum who thinks other way.

Your Quote - However, nobel prizes alone are not a guide to how smart a group is. These awards sometimes can be politically and economically motivated. Just because Jews have won so many prizes does not mean it is representative of success.

This is again wrong, Jews has proved that they are really a bunch of smart people, Why only Nobel prizes , Look at US Industry, Dominated by Jews, There is a reason they got spread over Europe and US, and there by they got good and bad situations in which they survived and got into top notch, that is smartness. So these are facts we cant deny it but Indians are overtaking them too slowly , and pushing Chinese to 3rd place in US that is what the Fobes study says… Hope it continues

Rest of your comments are perfect I agree with you 100%.

Rushton he is a nut , David Suzuki ripped him off in one to one debate. Hope you have watched it in (Youtube).

If you are a Bangladeshi doesn’t matter still you are part of that Ancient Great INDIA .......

The reason why I mentioned the last 2 centuries or so is because I was relating to the time frame of British India and even shorter period of Nobel prizes.

I am not disputing Jews are a smart people - they are. What I am saying is that even though they are extremely bright, their level of achievements are far over and above what would you would expect for what is a relatively small population.

Also notice they have far greater level of achievements in the US than Europe. Yes, they have a larger population of Jews in the US than they do Europe, but I think America, in particular, has been very favourable towards the Jews to make amends for what they see as white crime against humanity against the Jews (the holocaust). Europe also has had a similar attitude over the last 5-6 decades but not as keenly as in the US.

I think you can’t doubt that Jews like to promote themselves into positions of power. You will see this in various industries in America where Jews dominate. Yes, it is due in part to the fact that they are a very smart people, but also they have a tendency to get into positions of power and hire other Jews to ensure they continue that dominance. Now, I don’t have any hard evidence for this, but you can see it in various organizations where not so brilliant Jews have also managed to get to the top.

I can give you some of examples if you wanted where they have gotten to the top into very high profile nationwide jobs in the media (news, politics, current affairs), for example, where the individuals do not appear very intelligent and I would have to assume were probably less deserving than others who would have been overlooked because they weren’t Jewish. 

As for the whole debate about India and China - I think the Chinese have more clever people in terms of numbers of the whole populations in the two countries i.e. China will have more people that are clever in terms of number of people (percentage of population that would be considered intelligent), but at the top is where India has the advantage. India has more brilliant people than China does. This has been proven throughout the two countries’ long civilizations. The cleverest people in India I think are more creative, more adventurous, more dynamic.

@art
haha, hate to break out the news to you south asians, south asians including india are among the shortest asians. a quick search online, 9 out of 10 sources put chinese taller than indian. All sources indicate south asian are shorter than east asians

China rural 1.663m, urban 1.702m
Hong Kong 1.717m
Singapore 1.706m
korea 1.7374m
Japan 1.707

India: rural 1.612m, ruban: 1.663m
Sri Lanka: 1.636m

you see, my dark short indian friend, not only you can’t compete in first tier, second tier sports with the chinese, you can’t even compete in third tier sports like table tennis and badminton. the only thing you are good at is that bottom tier sport called cricket where only a handful third and bottom tier countries care about, lol. if chinese were serious about cricket, you indian would get destroyed, just like every other things chinese seriously compete in, lol. nobel prizes, popular sports that take skills, iq, algorithmic competitions, anything that takes logical brain power, east asians trump short little south asians like a man step on a bug. don’t believe me? do some research online, you’ll learn a lot.

“match indian innovation”, hahaha, another one of those indian no-brain talk. sure, south asian like to claim anything south asian as “greatest”, “most innovative”, “einstein of…” bs that no one else recognizes. indians claim decimal system, chinese claim negative numbers, binary system, algebra, etc… like i said, for every so called south asian invention, east asian can claim 20 times more. for every so called south asian bs used as imaginary “foundation of ...”, east asian can claim 20 times more. i give credit to south asian for their ability to dreaming up infinite number of gods, with no logic thinking ability, south asian prevail in dreaming up gods. you see, my short little south asian friend, that’s why south asian are only fit to create african like countries, your guys are not innovative, can’t reverse engineer even after western “friends” gave you the technology. essentially all things you are good at require no logic brain power or work ethics, like sit in a slum talking and starving, just like the africans.

to sum it up, east asian physical >> south asian physical, east asian brain >> south asian brain, east asian height >> south asian height, south asians are inferior from every angle one can possibly measure. bragging and exaggerating things like “greatest”, “foundation of all of ....”, “einstein of” or flat out lies like “1 in 3” or “1 in 5”, you know, anything that can’t easily be measured or quantified, south asians win!!! lol.

... pushing “chinese” to third place and slowly replacing jew? hahaha, let’s see, even filipino in the US had always been more successful than the chinese, japanese and korean. so people from some bottom tier countries which happen to speak english as their official language are successful in english speaking countries, damn, I’m surprised, lol. Let’s look, in any countries where neither first-generation chinese or indians have any language advantages, chinese always win out. that’s the case almost anywhere outside english speaking countries where there are closely equivalent chinese and indian population, examples, southeast asia, non-english speaking european countries, even in africa. with regression to the mean, 2nd/3rd generation east asians will keep above 105 iq similar to the jews, and 2nd/3rd generation south asians will regress to the 80~90 iq, mirroring current iq level of india and china.

@low iq EA

The words like greatest aren’t self-proclaimed. For example, the compliment to Ravi Shankar was given by the Beatles, who were the best selling band in history.

Also, I think 5 times world chess champion is a fairly objective measure?
The best EA chess player is Nakamura, who is half-white.

Also, the prize money is a fairly objective measurement?
Yuri Milner’s FPP has the biggest prize-money in science.
Abel prize money is greater than Fields prize money.
Indians have won these,  Chinese haven’t.

Also, Chinese supposedly do better in homeland than abroad? China has only ONE nobel winning CITIZEN. If anything, it’s the Chinese who needed a first world environment to do better.
Chinese sports success is due to = system + infrastructure + pressure.

Most of these olympic sports are garbage sports. Badminton is a good sport and China does very well, but…
Chinese Badminton Players outnumber Indian players by a ratio of 20:1, and they even replaced a higher ranked player by a slightly lower ranked player in the olympics specifically keeping in mind their records against Saina and they still could not prevent her from winning a bronze.

As for cricket:
Go to England and ask if they care about cricket. They care about cricket as much as any other sport.
USAIN BOLT and YOHAN BLAKE wants to join IPL. No athlete wants to join any chinese league.

And if Indians are shorter then that means greater achievement per cm. You realize that?
Indian skin colour is a rainbow of colours. Chinese skin colour lacks variety. understand?

And if Indians are shorter then that means greater achievement per cm. You realize that?
Indian skin colour is a rainbow of colours. Chinese skin colour lacks variety. understand?

Everything was going well untill I read this. I almost fell from my chair while LOL.
Actually, height has increased over generations, just like IQ.

@Chinese Olympics

I have seen videos of what doctor 101 was saying. It’s true, man. These little girls and boys were like 6-8 years old, and it can only be called torture.

I have already conceded that India can’t compete with China in olympics any time soon, but if Olympics had sports like Cricket, Billiards, Chess, Golf, Kabaddi, Kho-Kho or Carrom then India would surely guarantee a few more medals. Indians were the best at hockey untill the astro-turf was introduced. This made close control unneccessary and made long passes and running stamina more important. India also

@brain
so south asian claim a couple wins over east asian, so that invalidates east asian/south asian discrepency in intellectual brain power? so an Australian wins one diving medal, all the sudden australia is better than china in diving? like i said, for every one “achievement” claimed by south asian, there are tons more can be claimed by east asian, there’s just no comparison between south asian and east asian. you may have a couple wins here and there over the east asian, ok, but the number, depth, breadth of other intellectual and physical prowess east asian have over south asian are just so overwhelming that renders whatever few wins you have completely insignificant.

south asian can’t win nobel without colonial british or american environment. at least 4 chinese won nobel while they were citizens of “republic of china”, tons of japanese, exponentially less can be said about south asian. with east asian iq above 100 vs. south asian iq of only 81, chinese, being east asian, will pull further ahead in nobel as it develops first world environment, with “republic of china” and “japan” being prime examples. on the other hand, not a single south asian country has proven capability of producing noble without colonial british or american environment.

IPL who, lol? like i said, only inventor country UK (not even top 3 sport in uk) and a handful bottom tier former colonies are probably on it, no one else. if east asian were serious about cricket, like everything else we do, you’d be destroyed in no time. yeah, enjoy your status in cricket while you can, as most countries in the world don’t even know what it is…. here, I’ll give you one gold for cricket.

all being said, looks like not only south asians are short, even with smaller denominator, your contribution/cm still can’t measure up to east asian.