The Indian/Chinese IQ puzzle

Buddhism was originated from Nepal and Sakyamuni is a Chinese-looking guy. This explains why Buddhism religion is popular only in East-Asian countries.

And what evidence do you have of this? Just because Christianity became the religion of Europe, does this mean that the Europeans are all genetic semites? From my reading, Buddha is known as the Sage of the Sakyas. Renowned Finnish Indologist, Asko Parpola, believes that the Sakyas were the ancient Indo-Iranic Sakas, from whom the later Scythians and Jats descended. The Jats today still preserve legends of Buddha being a Jat and of the lineage of the solar king, Iksvaku. In the Digha Nikaya, which is the oldest book of the presectarian Pali Canon, it is said that Buddha [DN 3.144] “has blue eyes”.

Do you have alternate information? Also, are you a Chinese?

It is safe to say that most of the Indian guys posting here are quite ignorant and boorish. I wonder why they even bothered to say anything. Let me give my two cents worth here.

I am a great admirer of China, and the progress it has made over the past few decades. I think a firefly-esque future for the world is very desirable, where English and Mandarin are the dominant languages (Hindi and Arabic speakers will probably disagree).  Industriousness and hard work are very chinese qualities, qualities which build civilisations. But I find the average chinese person very ignorant about his nation’s past (unless you count Chaiman Mao!). It seems that they have become a nation of soulless factory workers! Not very ‘intelligent’, in my opinion.

I dislike several qualities that are typically found in Indians, like their propensity to jabber endlessly, their laziness, divisiveness, etc. India is also probably the only place where cowardice and non violence are elevated to a virtue. Probably comes from having their arses handed to them so many times in the past. And yes, independence was not won, but rather granted by the Brits who simply became disinterested. But only after looting it dry, breaking its spirit, destroying its traditional systems of thought, imposing a prudish Victorian morality, and reducing it to a nation of beggars. The Indians did not ask you to come to conquer them. Yet, driven by greed, you came. Well, the consequences are just beginning to show. Armed with English, the brightest ones will spread out across the world. You did not honestly think that you could just leave India poor and forget about it, did you? The ‘globalised’ same system that you have set free will come back and haunt you.

I see that a lot of people here equate Hinduism with a backward, animal and penis worshipping religion. That is a very mistaken POV. Unlike the bloody monotheistic religions emanating from the so-called ‘Holy Land’, Hinduism does not expect much from its followers, and allows them to stay true to their native culture and express themselves as that feel like.

Coming to the question of intelligence, I think a nation as rich as India in religious traditions, epics, poetry, languages, systems of thought, logic, etc can rival any other in terms of intelligence. All those who think darkies = dumb can eat their hears out!

I have one question which I hope the commentators here can answer: Are we comparing the Intelligence of indians and chinese, or of Aryans and East Asians? While the chinese are a pretty homogeneous in terms of race (at least to me), it is a rather vexing question for the indians. While i will not get into this, i see a gross injustice done to the indians when it comes to historical achievements.

The aryans who did settle down in india in the past, should be considered indians, shouldn’t they? Whatever they wrote, invented, discovered, etc should rightfully be considered indian achievements, not aryan achievements, right? Are not the Brits proud of their Anglo Saxon heritage, even though these tribes were originally ‘invaders’?

I fully support the anti-miscegenation theme in this forum, but the game is not as one sided as you think. indians as a percentage of the population in the US and the UK are increasing (given the low native birth rate, for which the indians are not to blame ). But the whites didn’t restrain themselves while they were here. According to wikipedia, “Inter-ethnic marriages between European men and Indian women were very common during colonial times. According to the historian William Dalrymple, about one in three European men (mostly British, as well as Portuguese, French, Dutch, and to a lesser extent Swedes and Danes) had Indian wives in colonial India”. The descandant community is around 600,000 strong today, and, nobody here talks about ‘repatriating’ them. They are quite proud of their heritage (as all indians, regardless of their colour are) and are doing very well. What do the ‘honourable’ whites here have to say about that?

East Asian majority countries are prosperous and progressive.

South Asian majority countries are poverty stricken, backward and prone to social and political strife.

What more proof do you want to show that East Asians have superior intellect?

Comments by Dragon Star and Shiva have brought some semblance of decency to this crapfe… err.. debate. They represent the level-headed numbers from China and India and the hope for the future.

I personally agree that we have a lot to learn from East Asia. Forty years ago South Korea had a lower per capita income than India. Today SK companies have cornered the Indian car market. In the face of all evidence it is baffling to see the racist malice the urban Indian, primarily for the north reserves for the East Asian. To most Indians there will be no difference in perception of a Nepali and a Japanese, that in itself says how superficial and geographically challenged we are as a people inspite of all the claims to great refinement in culture.

Now the good news: the Indian IQ is nowhere as low as Lynn calculated with his sample size drawn from the muckiest and poorest interiors of the country. It may not be as high as its Chinese equivalent but it is definitely not as low as North Africa or the Middle East.

Ashok,

It would be interesting to know where you would intuit the pan-Indian IQ, and whether you think Pakistan and Bangladesh would vary.  Care to take a stab at it?

Ashok

You’re right about specially northern Indians. They are the scum of the earth. Even when they migrate to other countries, they take their dirty habits with them. They are cheap racists and very jealous. Yet as history proves, they have no problem kissing the ass of foreign conquerers. They are cowardly and shameless as well.

Another good point you have made, is that Indians, despite all the hype and boasting about their ancient civilization and culture, hardly behave in civilized and cultured way. Most Indians are ill-mannered and uncouth. Indians are hippocrates who only know how to boast but never show action to match their boasts.

Chinese are focused and goal oriented. Unlike Indians, they act more and talk less. That pretty much explains why China is light years ahead of India and will always be light years ahead of India.

The pan-Indian IQ could be in the early 90s as someone commented previously. Pakistan would rank lower, Bangladesh near about the same or slightly higher. It is complex comparing India to Bangladesh as they would one-up each other in their abysmal rankings alternately on indexes such as literacy rates and malnutrition.

Historically however the Bengalis have won more Nobel prizes than any other south asian group and Bangladesh is routinely outdo Indians in international programming contests (this one is the hardest to ignore) But again these are just indicators and could be just because of their robust intellectual tradition. They have had a brain food rich fish diet though, for centuries.

Gupta, I agree with some of what you say. To ascribe a single tendency to a sixth fraction of humanity with thousands of circles and their intersections is fraught with risk of overkill. And the groups you mention are so boxed-in and scarred that the more you beat them down on forums the harder they will come down on us and upon themselves. Chinese are everything you say, and also not as constantly at odds with themselves.

What race are Bengali people? Some of them look like Oriental(Mongolic race), are they some kind of mix?

RJ please get yourself educated & get out of the old idiotic theory that caste was based on race because it’s not and the proof is in the pudding.

The so called “lowly” Dravidians outperform Northerners.

There is no real concrete racial division between Northeners and Southerners but Southerners on average tend to be darker in India just like in Italy and they tend to speak the Dravidian languages unlike the Northeners who speak languages derived from Sanskrit. Unlike in Italy though they tend be higher performing than North Indians.

Now that we got the basics right, let me educate you a bit about your misconceptions.

The most developed region of India as a whole is the “Dravidian” South & Bangalore is the Southern city where IT jobs are being mainly outsourced.

Ramanujan one of the most brilliant mathematicians of the 20th century was a dark skinned Southerner from Tamilnadu the southern most & darkest state of India.

So is Subramanya Chandrasekhar & CV Raman who won Nobels in Physics.

Steve Sailer I believe has dicussed this also.

Ashok one of those was Tagore who won it in literature.

Another is Muhammad Yunus who won it for peace.

Amartya Sen the socialist dhimmi won it for economics.

I need not repeat that it’s much harder to win a Nobel in Physics (& other hard sciences) like Raman & Chandrasekhar where decisions are much less influenced by political considerations than in economics and peace.

West Bengal was also a communist basket case till very recently.

India is such a dirt poor 3rd cesspool that makes up-Sahara countries look like paradise. Why can’t you Indian talents stay home and help your countrymen suffer less? Last time I checked, according to Bloomberg, more than 800 million Indians defecate in the open @http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?sid=aErNiP_V4RLc&pid=20601109. Those who do go to toilets just use bare hand to wipe @htttp://www.pbase.com/jtodhunter/indian_toilet. You may say it is a cultural issue or none of your business hygiene issue. But, it WILL be global environmental issues if India does nothing to control her population and work hard on these large scale unhygienic habits.

I read the link above

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?sid=aErNiP_V4RLc&pid=20601109

and it says that some 665 millions Indian practice open defecation, not 800 millions.

Then I google ‘India open defecation’ and found this link:

http://www.indiatogether.org/2007/jul/hlt-squat.htm

and it says that some Indian reverts to open defecation even toilet is available.  And the reason suggested is that ‘most Indians suffer from claustrophobia once inside an enclosed toilet’.

” West media is guilty of hyping up the fallacy of Indian coming superpower status. Whole India is now right on this steroid and wholeheartedly believes that India is a tech superpower. The facts of matters are that Indians on average are very low IQ. International IQ study experts estimates that Indian’s average IQ is 81. The IQ stats well explains why 600-700 million Indians can not even write their own names and majorities of Indians live below sub-Sahara countries living standards. While Indian upper caste elite blogs here bragging wildly, most Indians do not have clean water to drink, have no electricity, and suffer from no sewage system. Hundreds of millions Indian urinate and defecate in the open.

Because of the low average IQ, Indians are prone to believe all sort of phony stats as facts as long as they hype up Indian supremacy. People LOL when Indians brag that Indians make up 50% NASA scientists, 40% Microsoft and started 1/3 American high-tech startup. These bogus stats are internet hoax to make fun of Indian braggart nature. However, hundreds of millions of Indian believe these funny stats. It is understandable that average low IQ Indians are prone for these lies. However, it is stunning that even Indian parliament also believe these hoaxes. Indians government official also cite these bogus stats to declare Indian dominance in US, making Indian government a laughing stock of itself. http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Indians_in_NASA_Govt_falls_for_net_hoax/articleshow/2856295.cms India.ns are opting to complain the stupidity of their government. They conveniently forget they elect them themselves. “

    It makes me laugh to see all of the incorrect facts in here. First of all, when you say that the Indians elect their officials, it reminds me of the Western side as well; they complain about their government, and frequently forget that they are the ones who elected them. Also, a low IQ has nothing to do with defectation. You are wandering off the subject and evidently want to harass the Indian race to an extreme. Stay on topic! I’m only going off topic myself to correct the false information you dished out so easily. Start acting mature and deal with the article, not your evidently rascist opinions. As with the IQ information of the main article, I am wondering if you have taken the stats from every area in India; another comment said the data was only taken from the northern parts of India within a disadvantaged group of people. Is this true? Thanks.

I think most Indians who think India is on par to overtake China fall into two categories

1. Indians who have never stepped out of the country.
2. NRIs who have never visited India.

Another factor that will tilt the scales is that the smartest Chinese who study in the west eventually return to China. It is hardly the same in India’s case.

If Confucian China was not already historically a meritocratic society, the CCP’s theme of rapid development at all costs has hardwired a savage competitiveness into the average Chinese that would be tough for Indians conditioned to hate their bureaucracy and ignore the systemic inefficiences to match. I shiver at the thought of what 50 million East Asians in South Korea achieved in 30 yrs, and 120 million in Japan after devastation in the world war. Imagine 1.5 billion of them under a Communist regime. India must not adopt a confrontational position vis-a-vis China, not militarily atleast in any case.

Only yesterday China posted 11.2% GDP growth figures, announced its first indigenously built Maglev train, while India’s space rocket with an indigenous cryogenic engine failed its launch.

@Ashok

Well said buddy. You’r one of those rare desis who can speak the truth instead of being arrested by a false sense of patriotic fervour.

Indians have easier access to cell phones than to toilets. If this is the hi-tech India that so many Indians attempt to boast about, then India shouldn’t be comparing with China.

Atleast the Chinese know which necessity comes first in order of precedence, in it’s endeavour to progress.

Indians seem to be obsessed with trying to win a juvenile game of one upmanship with China, without even having a clue on how to get their priorities straight first. A game which India never had any chance of winning. Most Indians exhibit an outrageous lack of maturity and rationality.

How many of you have degrees for christ’s sake? Simply jumping at things that are not well described or well founded. IQ is not a proper measure. Its not proven.

IQ test has vocabulary and verbal skill tests, i don’t even know if these tests are offered in native languages. Brain can be exercised and academic training will directly affect the IQ score. We are as intelligent as we work on our brain. Simple.

@losers

Is not the same parameters (about tests not being in native language) apply to chinese as well.

Mandarin and other Chinese languages are way different from English.

Indians are learning English for at least last two centuries , while Chinese have just begun two decades back.

In spite of that Chinese being able to average an IQ of 105 against 84 for Indians speaks volumes.