The Indian/Chinese IQ puzzle

wow   I’m a US mom of two little boys.  they are going to a Chinese immersion elementary school here, since I want them to have a bigger world view (than your typical American)  I googled Chinese, language, IQ, to see how they may benefit from our school choice, and got to this site.  I’m not sure I want them to be part of the world community after reading these posts.  I’m pretty sure KINDNESS exists in all your cultures, does it not?  I shun (despise) organized religion, but I love this (bible) statement.  “Much is expected from those to whom much is given, for their responsibility is greater”  You all seem so ready to post your IQ; find a greater cause.

Interesting articles on how China is outperforming India on almost every meaningful measure of social and economic progress:

http://en.citizendium.org/wiki/Life_expectancy
http://www.rediff.com/money/2005/sep/27china.htm

I want both India and China to do well. I have never heard a Chinese disparage India’s efforts to improve themselves. But plenty of Indians seem to dislike the Chinese resurgence. I do not want to put India down, but if attacked - hence the articles at the links above. Indians get real. You are going nowhere with that backward, immoral Hindu religion. The Chinese at least had the gumption to get rid of foot-binding, landlordism, and feudal superstitions. This could only have happened under a communist government.

To identify myself in this very narrow context I state that I am a 143 IQ Indian. So I lay before you the two parameters on the basis of which you judicious people have so kindly classified entire populations.

The world moves forward towards globalization and you sit behind the cloak of anonymity that the internet offers you , taking snide shots at each others ‘genetic pools’ and ‘races’. Do you guys realize how stupid you sound?

There are smart people, average IQ folks and downright dumb folks in every country and race. Yes the average IQ of one country may exceed that of another. So what? Are you actually that insecure about your heritage and lineage that you need to prove it here?? - Through posts on a site??

Local governance has nothing to do with IQ. And that’s a fact. Countries didn’t colonize other countries because they were ‘smarter’. If they were smart enough they wouldn’t resort to colonization or war in the first place.

Besides what is the big deal about IQ anyways? The test is heavily biased and proves nothing in real life. There are tons of people with astronomical IQs doing absolutely nothing with their life. Yet I know people, who with much lower IQs can create art, music, literary compositions,  I could never dream of. Irrespective of their country.

Some of the views thrown about in this forum only prove that the authors have very limited IQs and restricted thinking abilities. Please engage these sparse faculties of yours in something more constructive and refrain from commenting on topics you know nothing about. That will help your country/ race/ gene pool/ football club/poker league alot more. Trust me.

“The world moves forward towards globalization and you sit behind the cloak of anonymity that the internet offers you , taking snide shots at each others ‘genetic pools’ and ‘races’. Do you guys realize how stupid you sound?”

Anonymity - the good old double standard rears its head. If I as a white person in a white country, the US, Europe etc say I want white people to remain a majority I run the risk of prosecution, accusations of racism, facism, nazism, loss of employment. You as a non-white can pop up in our territory and happily cheer on the day that we will be a minority or even cease to exist, even organize political groups to that end (eg La Raza in the US) and suffer what penalty? Nothing as far as I can see. So you can take your anonymity and shove it.

Internet - the one that our people conceived, designed, built and implemented and now see used by the likes of you.  We’ll do what we like with our internet thanks, you go and start your own from scratch.

“The world moves forward towards globalization”

So, remind me, how is that African immigration into India coming along? After all African labour is even cheaper than Indian, I really cant see what the hold up is. The Indian government wouldnt be so stupid and racist as not allow anyone to settle based on trivialities like race, IQ, culture etc.

“what is the big deal about IQ anyways? The test is heavily biased and proves nothing in real life”

Im glad you mentioned that Mr 143 IQ, it certainly removes the single flimsy justification for us importing you into our territory.

Wow! Some real eye openers here.. On how people of different communities look at each other. About who is smart, and who is not. About whose internet it is, and whose it is not. About who gave the world the world of mathematics. And finally, about how the lowly South Indian dravidians who are bringing the nation’s(India’s) IQ down. The list is never ending!

I am a south Indian, and probably of dravidian race (lowly, perhaps?). And I am not ashamed about who I am, or from where I come. I would not like to label myself with an IQ, so that you may decide whether to hear me out or not, based on what I write, not by the number which tells me my competence.

Honestly, we Indians have a long way to go. Not with respect to the IQ though. I have traveled extensively in my country and am always amazed by the wisdom that is inherent among the Indians. But, we are not testing wisdom, are we? We are testing intelligence.

IQ tests in the present format, are formal methods aimed at testing the educated people. Unfortunately, thanks to the bungling of the Indian political system, and the lack of awareness among the junta, education in India has a long way to go. So the average Indian is not trained enough, and would certainly not fare well in a formal IQ test. Most Indians who are not in Urban India, would never ever have appeared for an IQ test in their lives. Internet has changed a lot in India. Yeah, yeah.. your internet! Maybe, years ago, Indians used to say, “our” mathematics! Or maybe not.

Wayne1770 mentioned about Indians disparaging the chinese resurgence. Well, there would be, because we Indians aren’t growing fast enough, and the Chinese make sure that we are occupied with various issues with our neighbours. Such as the terrorism emanating from Pakistan, to which China exports nuclear capable 3000 km range missile technology; or the drug and mafia circuits through Nepal and Bangladesh; Nepal where the Maoists with the help of the Chinese have taken over the nation, and Bangladesh, to which China gives goodies so that they are anti India. With all these subversive policies against India, wouldn’t you think that Indians would be wary about the Chinese prosperity, which they use to keep the Indian nation down?

Indians have a lot to do to get their political, judicial, social and educational system right. Democracy does not work for a new born nation. Communism, with the power in the hands of the right people- the visionaries works. India embraced democracy, and power fell in the hands of the people who were not capable nor had the inclination of developing the nation. And in democracy, a wise man’s say is as good/bad as that of the unwise. China surged ahead during this time like a start-up running with a corporate structure.

I hope I was able to throw some light on the issues pertaining to India and China, the relationship between them,  and most importantly, why the IQ of an average Indian seems lesser compared to the Chinese. Democracy has its own positives and negatives. We have seen the negatives till now, and as the average Indian becomes more educated and aware, the positives of democracy should show up. I have no excuses though, for the relative poor performance of us as a nation in terms of development.

Looking back at this longish post, just proves what we are good at! Talk!
Thanks you for your patience. And chill!

Lurker, I did not understand your comments!

First, how does anonymity and the issue of white majority relate? The political organisation is real. They are not anonymous.

Second, Internet. If you so much wish to use only your internet, please do so. Stop using products of Google, Sun, Microsoft, Amazon, Target, Alcatel-Lucent, Motorola, Bell, Texas Instruments etc. ;all those companies whose research and development is done in India. Go back to your internet of 1995. By the way, where do you think the internet was developed? US? Check out what CERN is all about. Thanks to those guys for the internet. We are grateful and we will happily use it, irrespective of some lurkers objections.

Third, Globalisation. We have enough number of people in our own country and the competition is too huge for the africans to survive.

Finally, there are enough Indians who DONOT wish to migrate, and so the companies themselves migrate to India. Globalisation is here and it is here to stay!

Here’s a link which may give you some cheer, as far as Indian development is considered..
http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/may/30nile.htm

I am an Indian, work in UK.

Indeed Whites or may be Brits have the highest IQ, since they ruled almost every part of the world except Japan.

1. Why did 2 out of 2 world wars fought in Europe?
2. UK is now full of immigrants from 3rd world?
3. I cant find a white doctor in NHS.
4. Why do they need low IQ people like me to work fro them?
5. What is UK’s source of income other than VAT and TAX (I wonder how long the loot will last which they stole from every country they ruled)
6. why is every electrical/electronic product has made in china label and ever garment has been either imported from India / Pak or other Asian (3rd world) countries.
7. why is UK and US Citizens are so scared of immigrants and they worry about their very existence?

Who are Americans? Native Red Indians no longer exist in huge numbers.

Rest were English criminals who were sent to American Land. Australians are they any different from them ?

Indeed Brits have a highest IQ because they know how to divide and rule, and professors of corruption which they have taught to 3rd world. No wonder Indians were their best students.

What does India/ china export products, garments, software and TALK of-course (call centers)?
And what does US Exports Military Hardware ? Thanks to them for introducing a newer form on 21st century imperialism over Fuel.
Do we know any single war in the last 110 years where US was not involved?

Indeed UK and US Nationals have greater IQ than the rest of the world.

Once India was Gold (not golden) sparrow and now what it has become .. thanks to high (very) IQ of Brits

Anyone who has paranoia should seek a help of a psychiatrist (Please see a US or UK Born doctor next time), careful of Low IQ-ed Indian Docs.

vixflix I really liked your post! Ya you tell them!
Although i disagree with the British being totally responsible for the colonization of India. You have to admit that the “racist” minds of Indians were part of the reason for the British Raj.

hi all,,    this is an interesting topic….....

i am a chinese kid around 18 years old, and my college here got around 50 other overseas chinese kid and about 30-40 indian who are studying A-level currently, the total number of pupil of the whole college is around 300
...
there is a math competition held through the whole nation called “The UK senior math challenge” actually it is kinda iq test

i have been here for 3 years, and every year i looked the top 100 pupils, and i was amazed by the names on the list… around 20-30 pupil are chinese,  how come there are so many chinese while the chinese pupil papulation in uk school is about 0.0001%?

by the way, i dont really rely on NHS, simply because there are so many Indian doctors,  i am afraid their mis-diagnose..  white doctors are good though, but too few of them

i can see lots of stuffs are made in china here, partly it is due to cheap labor ,secondly it is chinese are more skillful and fast learning…. but where is the inidan thing?

the truth is china is now fully technologically restricted, everything have to do by themselves ...otherwise many europeans will lose their job now….
in contrast, india is fully technologically unrestricted, but why didnt they can make a fully functioned tank?

the only thing that chinese failed is the english language, chinese english is not as good as the indian in our college, partly bacause chinese kids have been learning it for 2 or 3 years, while the indian are born here

India is no match of China, whether you like it or not ,it is the truth,,, please you ppl dont put them together comparing each other…..

china has dominated fields of techology and art before 1600 AD, but surpassed by the british impire about 1800 AD ... THIS IS because the british went industrialisation, while the chinese went central planning and stronger bureaucratism which didnt encourage techology inventions and science developments

anyway, let’s see what china will become in 20-30 years ,  and india…....
which will prove the IQ theory is true…

my only hopes are there are no wars and earthquakes…...............

peace

kid 1 and all who are reading this post.

The point here is not where will China/ India or any other country would stand in next 2 or 3 decades.

Every country has its own problems / limitations and of course there positives and resources which are yet to be exploited.

China is not the only country where earth quakes come, Japan has more number of earth quakes recorded than any other nation, isn’t it?
US suffers from Hurricanes. India has its own set of issues be it Floods, Tsunami, Quakes or Social issues like Corruption, Huge population that too majority is below poverty line compared to the available resources, and Terrorism.

I bet where people are busy in dealing with the basic need of food, shelter and clothing you can not expect them to score 100 or above in IQ test.

FYI: English is spoken only in Cities in India.

From my point of view Human Intelligence will only prove its worth if they do something useful for the planet and for the life form.

I think all of us here arguing on the question of which Country has highest avg IQ, we have proven that we lack The Common Sense.
Their are lot of things and work to be done for the benefit of core life form and of-course humans and this planet.

Dear author of blog post,

You are indeed correct with your assumption that the IQ score for India is probably incorrect and likely due to external factors.  In fact, Lynn himself did a recent study of South Asians in the United Kingdom and found an average of 95, higher for Indians but lower for Pakistanis.  So Indians were around 100, Pakistanis around 90.  My own studies of Indians in the United States show an IQ that’s even higher - however these are not your average Indians.  The immigration policy of United States brings more bright and talented Indians so they have become the State’s most talented minority, but do not represent the average Indian.  The United Kingdom estimate seems more realistic because the U.K. immigration brings more average Indians into the country.  That’s why normal Pakistanis in the U.K. do poorly, but the Indians still do very well.  For example, they score second highest on GSCE exams (after the Chinese).  This supports the estimate mentioned above.

We can also use Singapore to estimate Indians average IQ.  Indians in Singapore are mostly those who came as laborers, brought in by the British, just like the Chinese.  The measured IQ of Chinese in Singapore is 108, and Malays have a score of 92.  Indians, in all socioeconomic factors, are between the Chinese and Malays, usually inching towards the Chinese.  While they have very high incomes and education rates, their actual examination (test) scores are in the middle between the Chinese and Malays.  So that would enable us to estimate an IQ of around 100 or so.  This matches the earlier estimate.  Of course, India has many ethnic groups.  In my view, Muslim Indians tend to do the worst while Parsees do the best.  Overall, South Indians (darker) do better than North Indians (lighter) but not by much.

The country itself will lag behind China in potential because China is a very uniform country while India is a patched up place of hundreds of different interest groups to fulfill.

-Takahata Joe

kid-1

Your name speaks volumes about your intellectual capacity.  I find it amusing that you “prefer” white doctors even though Indians the UK are, on average, more educated and score higher on tests than whites.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=461

Not that I don’t understand, of course.  The majority of people do not have the capacity to do research before forming opinions.

The blatant racism on this page is ridiculous! Is it really possible for Africans to have an IQ of 60, when considering that an IQ of 78 is classified as mentally retarded?

“L,” Prof. Rushton addresses your question here.  There’s no contraction although it may seem as if there’s one. 

Lawrence Auster has also dealt with this issue at his site; I haven’t got the exact reference.  If memory serves, he reconciles it in a slightly different way from Prof. Rushton.  But he does reconcile it. 

If you’re interested, here are more Rushton articles.

That should be, “There’s no contradiction ...”

Rushton’s analysis seems to be right. Even with Brahmins which are just 5% of India’s population, they can’t pull up a country with so many low IQ people. Probably India is also destined to mediocrity alongwith North Africa and other low IQ nations. I am a (low IQed) Indian who is seriously thinking of migrating to Canada now…...... maybe with so many high IQ people around I might learn new things and make little improvements to my low IQ!!! Unfortunately Canadians on average should become dumber if they let me inside their country. My small mind has a humble idea for Dr. Rushton. Why not import all Ashkenazi Jews to the west since they have the highest average IQ. Then surely western countries will become unbeatable. Why dont they start doing it. Anyways maybe I’m too dumb to comprehend such things.

Dear “dumbindian”

If you have an opinion, why hide behind a false identity to say it?

In my opinion, I agree with the original poster of this article that I see no lack of IQ potential from Indians, unlike, say, Africans.  I don’t believe they have the same overall average as East Asians (around 106), but their more pronounced variance can be an advantage.

“Why not import all Ashkenazi Jews to the west since they have the highest average IQ.”  (—Indian)

Sounds great. 

Except for one thing:  Ashkenazi Jews do to Euro countries what termites do to homes, methodically destroy them from the inside out.  They can’t stop:  it’s in their genes.  So, all Euro countries had best reduce their numbers to a minumum until they show they know how to behave (which, it being in their genes, may never come to pass).

Wow! I just stumbled upon this blog. What is it? Is the new Chinese government propaganda website? Why do the Chinese fear the Indians so much? There seems to be a tremendous inferiority complex going on here. You don’t have to worry my Chinese friends, we Americans will import enough Chinese toys and furnitures to keep you fed. Just don’t go on a brag-trip and tell everyone how smart you are because this website is a testimony to the contrary.Also, for the Indian bloggers on this website, restrict yourselves to solving mathematical problems, designing computer softwares and on answering phone calls. That is your specialization at this point, any argument you guys try to make on this blog does not sound as eloquent or compulsive.